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    LCR Beta Test

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    Hugh

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    LCR Beta Test

    Post  Hugh on June 22nd 2010, 7:49 am

    Good morning,

    Now that the LCR are at Ninja HQ, I'd like to start this thread as a central location for impressions and inputs.
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    skeeter99

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  skeeter99 on June 27th 2010, 3:41 pm

    Hugh wrote:Good morning,

    Now that the LCR are at Ninja HQ, I'd like to start this thread as a central location for impressions and inputs.

    Count me in as watching for replies cheers

    The Ninja

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  The Ninja on June 28th 2010, 12:23 pm

    We're installing NoRez now; impressions to come!

    Hugh

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  Hugh on June 28th 2010, 12:44 pm

    Thanks Ninja San.
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    woofersus

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  woofersus on June 30th 2010, 5:52 pm

    Question

    The Ninja

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  The Ninja on July 2nd 2010, 1:50 pm

    NoRez is cut. Installing shortly.

    woofersus wrote: Question
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    mobileusa

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  mobileusa on July 2nd 2010, 7:46 pm

    The Ninja wrote:NoRez is cut. Installing shortly.

    woofersus wrote: Question

    and...? bounce
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    woofersus

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  woofersus on July 2nd 2010, 8:30 pm

    I think you should plan your day around my impatience. Wink

    In all seriousness though, if you managed to resist listening before you put the NoRez in, you're a more self-controlled man than me....

    The Ninja

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  The Ninja on July 6th 2010, 3:42 pm

    We shut down for the holiday - back to work tomorrow Smile
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    mobileusa

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  mobileusa on July 7th 2010, 12:30 pm

    looking forward to your impression Smile

    Hugh

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  Hugh on July 7th 2010, 9:13 pm

    Tomorrow is already here Wink Smile
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    mobileusa

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  mobileusa on July 8th 2010, 7:37 am

    Sean could you take some nice pics of the LCR and email them to me?

    The Ninja

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  The Ninja on July 11th 2010, 10:39 am

    NoRez is installed in all three and they are set up in our theater. Will give a listen tonight! Will take some pics too.
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    mobileusa

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  mobileusa on July 11th 2010, 12:20 pm

    Sweet!....

    The Ninja

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  The Ninja on July 12th 2010, 5:46 pm

    Looks like no time for pics - Kevin is here to pick up the speakers Sad


    The Ninja

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  The Ninja on July 12th 2010, 5:49 pm

    Some quick impressions...

    Wow! Super open and clear. These best my x-statik's easily. Great dynamics too. Watched a movie on the set of three and was mighty impressed. Dialog is clean and clear - no issues at all. Very nice. I just wish I had more time with them.

    Hugh, you have some winners on your hands here!

    Sean
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    woofersus

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  woofersus on July 12th 2010, 8:00 pm

    Knowing you Sean, the fact that you watched a movie with them and wish you had more time says something pretty good. It's great to hear that you think they are a winner. I've been on pins and needles!

    Hugh

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  Hugh on July 12th 2010, 9:22 pm

    Sean,

    I'm glad to hear.

    At least, it proves to me my own ears didn't fool me. Smile
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    mobileusa

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  mobileusa on July 13th 2010, 7:32 am

    The Ninja wrote:Some quick impressions...

    Wow! Super open and clear. These best my x-statik's easily. Great dynamics too. Watched a movie on the set of three and was mighty impressed. Dialog is clean and clear - no issues at all. Very nice. I just wish I had more time with them.

    Hugh, you have some winners on your hands here!

    Sean


    OK, what else could you want? An approval from The Ninja is a great sign! I can't wait for my turn!! cheers
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    mobileusa

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  mobileusa on July 13th 2010, 7:34 am

    Is it my turn yet?
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    mobileusa

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  mobileusa on July 15th 2010, 10:31 am

    So Kevin....

    Hugh

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  Hugh on July 15th 2010, 4:33 pm

    He must be immersed in music by right now. Very Happy
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    mobileusa

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  mobileusa on July 17th 2010, 10:37 am

    mobileusa wrote:So Kevin....

    deja vu....

    emac

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  emac on July 18th 2010, 7:44 pm

    Posted this at TCA as well:



    I guess I'm one of the first people to hear the new LCR speakers from Angel City Audio. Got a chance to hear them at Sandbagger's today. Before I go into the details, it's worth explaining my familiarity w/ the Ref line, since these speakers share a lot in common w/ the Ref 3's (e.g. the drivers). I own a pair of Ninja-modded Ref 1.5's that I've used w/ ERT's. Rather like the sound of those (though currently they reside at a friend's house). I've also heard the Ref 3's at a GTG, and had liked them. Had felt that they were on par w/ the Mini's. And before I listened to the LCR's, I listened to Kevin's stock Ref 2's, which were pretty nice.

    So, the main point is that I'm familiar w/ the sound of the Ref's and had an idea in my head what I was expected before I heard the LCR's. My idea turned out to be both right and wrong. The Refs, when done well, can sound very musical and be sonically engaging. These elements were definitely there w/ the LCR's. But I hadn't expected the level of detail, density and breadth of the soundstage, and the dynamics. The 2 things I care about the most are the width/depth of the soundstage and getting the details of the music right. Probably comes from listening to a lot of electronic music. Anyway, with whatever tracks (jazz and electronic) I tossed at the speakers (please note that they were in 2.0 at this point), they did a very admirable job. Heard all sorts of details and spacial info that other speakers miss. But, what I really wasn't prepared for was the dynamics. While the detail and soundstage were beyond what I'd expected from Ref type speakers, I do not think of the Refs as being dynamic speakers. And yet, w/ these, the sound flew out of the speakers. Very, very nice effect, especially when we switched to 5.1 (w/ the Turbo MWF). And, of course, when we went to 5.1, there was a nice integration between the left, right, and center channels, since they are very similar.

    So, my overall impression is that Angel City has some winners on their hands. Couldn't find fault w/ them sonically. Couple of things of note. First, the bass appears to roll off somewhere in the 30-40Hz range. So, for HT and bassier music (like what I listen to) a sub is helpful. For other types of music, could live easily w/o a sub. Second, the Left and Right are meant to be put on stands. Personally, I'm not a big fan of large speakers on stands, and this is one of the few cases where even if I tried to convince my wife that I needed to buy these speakers, she would veto them. Not sure how feasible a tower version would be, but would be preferable IMO. Third, I have no idea what the price is, so I can't say if these are a good value or not.

    Hugh

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  Hugh on July 18th 2010, 8:11 pm

    Emac,

    Thank YOU very much for your honest input.

    We are currently working on something to make the L/R even better.

    Thanks again,
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    woofersus

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  woofersus on July 18th 2010, 9:18 pm

    Hugh wrote:

    We are currently working on something to make the L/R even better.

    Thanks again,

    Hugh, you're the biggest tease since prom. Wink I don't know what you've got planned for RMAF but I know I'd better not miss it...
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    mobileusa

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  mobileusa on July 19th 2010, 6:41 am

    Hugh wrote:Emac,

    Thank YOU very much for your honest input.

    We are currently working on something to make the L/R even better.

    Thanks again,


    already?? bounce

    Hugh

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  Hugh on July 19th 2010, 9:03 am

    But of course. Smile
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    woofersus

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  woofersus on July 20th 2010, 1:16 pm

    Well they're here. I won't have time to do much critical listening for the next couple of days since I'll be crazy busy, but you better believe I hooked 'em up for a listen right away. Smile

    I'll save impressions of the sound until I get them up on their stands and run room correction on them (for HT) and also lug them upstairs for a 2-channel listen with the XIA-160.

    I will say that they are pretty freaking heavy. Definitely solid and well braced in there. I suspect heavier than normal XO parts and the NoRez contribute as well. (I know when I went Ninja Master on my ELT525M's they got quite a bit heavier than the larger Bravos) They're pretty big too, although the size of the faces is relatively unobtrusive.

    I'll post more as soon as I have something to share.


    EDIT: BTW, if anybody watching the proceedings here hasn't seen my thread on TCA, I'm looking to hold a small gtg here in Mount Vernon, OH this weekend to demo these. (and some other Onix gear if anybody's interested) Drop me a line if you're interested.
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    mobileusa

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  mobileusa on July 21st 2010, 8:10 am

    looking forward to your impressions especially since you are very good in making reviews! cheers

    Hugh

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  Hugh on July 21st 2010, 9:36 am

    Same here.
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    woofersus

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  woofersus on July 21st 2010, 9:03 pm

    Slight change of plans. There's a fairly large AudioKarma/CRAC (Cleveleand Regional Audio Club) gtg happening in Wakeman, Ohio on Saturday and I'm going to take the LCR's (among other things) up there to show everybody. They're giving me my own room and everything. Smile

    I hadn't yet gotten any confirmed attendees here and we hadn't discussed days yet, so I decided to do the show there and make the speakers available here at my place on Sunday. If you're interested in hearning them let me know, so I can make plans for some food.

    Hugh

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  Hugh on July 22nd 2010, 9:25 pm

    Well Tim,

    What is your initial impression? Smile
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    woofersus

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  woofersus on July 23rd 2010, 8:41 am

    Hugh wrote:Well Tim,

    What is your initial impression? Smile

    Sorry for the spotty responses on this. I've had them playing music for 3 days, but I just turned in two 15 page papers and took my economics final last night, so after I catch up on the honey-do list a little bit today, I'll be able to spend some quality time with them and type up my thoughts in a little more detail.

    I haven't even run YPAO on them with my receiver or hooked them up to the XIA-160 yet, but I like them even with my cheap-ish RX-V663. These are about as solid and resonance-free as you can get, so the bass is very tight and crisp. I don't know exactly how far down these are going, but I'm able to cross my mfw-15 over lower with them than my RS450's and those are rated at 37hz. Also dialog is fantastically clear in the 15 minutes of a movie I watched last night. Even from my wife watching tv on the system occasionally I could tell, but with the blu-ray quality audio I actually turned DOWN the center channel level because I didn't need to over-emphasize it in order to avoid the dreaded volume roller coaster.

    The most obvious initial thing that stood out, though, was the great imaging and separation/layering of different sounds. The depth of soundstage is really something as even in my awkwardly layed out living room, with the speakers in a corner, I could hear things that were 2 feet in front of me, 5 feet in front of me, etc. Also, even with the L/R speakers a measly 5 feet apart I could easily pinpoint voices that were between left and center, between right and center, beyond the outer boundaries, and so on. Very nice.

    I may have a couple of minor criticisms as well, but I really want to wait until I listen "critically" before deciding on those. I won't hold back, though. You'll get nothing but the truth from me.

    That's it for the "so-far's." I'm off to clean gutters now.
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    mobileusa

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  mobileusa on July 24th 2010, 10:12 am

    be careful on the ladder...want to hear the rest of the review.. cheers

    Hugh

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  Hugh on July 27th 2010, 12:19 pm

    Learn something new everyday. Smile

    Since I don't have another set of LCR at home, I had to put my classic RS1K and Ninja Master RSC200 back into my HT.

    All along I thought the stock Sig. RSC200 was a good center and then I hit another milestone with the Ninja one. Well, yesterday after watching a couple of movies, I can say with no uncertainty that I much prefer the LCR over these; especially the C with its clarity and dynamics.

    Please note that this is NOT a sales pitch. Smile

    I am personally prouf of what we have accomplished so far.
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    mobileusa

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  mobileusa on July 27th 2010, 3:10 pm

    patiently waiting... bounce bounce bounce
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    woofersus

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    My impressions...

    Post  woofersus on July 29th 2010, 3:33 pm

    Also posted over in the TCA thread....

    Ok, so finally I am able to take my time and post my impressions. I picked up the LCR's from Kevin last tuesday and have had them here since then, but with a trip to a gtg in Cleveland over the weekend. More on that later...

    First thing I lugged them into the house and began unboxing. My first impression was that they were a bit larger than I imagined. And HEAVY. With NoRez installed the deeper L/R speakers come in at over 52lbs each! These are as solid as it gets. The knuckle test is like checking your granite countertops for resonances. The finish is exactly what you would expect. It's the same rosewood that was on all the Onix Reference speakers. My wife commented that they were attractive looking, which is saying something. She did think they were a bit large, which for our living room was true. It's an awkward layout with the TV in the corner, and it being a 27" CRT surrounded by 3 9x24 speakers, (two on my Onix stands, 1 mounted on top of the tv) the whole thing kinda looked like a big pile of stuff in the corner. I say this because I want to note that placement wasn't ideal by any means during their time in my Living Room. They were only about 4.5' apart and too close to the walls, although at least that corner doesn't load up too bad for whatever reason.

    The first thing I noticed when I hooked them up and turned them on was the detail and imaging. Before any room correction with YPAO or tinkering with receiver settings at all I immediately could understand dialog on tv programming better. Also (and don't laugh at me) I noticed that when I began tinkering with receiver settings and set distances for the speakers, I could hear distinct changes in the soundstage with every .5' of adjustment. With my RS450's and RSC100mkii (which I wasn't really unhappy with at all) I could barely tell it was changing anything. I had to move the distance setting towards or away from me by several feet to hear a change, and even then it was a matter of finding best coherency, not a clear shift in phase with every step. The soundstage with the LCR's is just so much more precise, with so much better separation of voices and layering of parts that every change was noticed, as if a guitar player had walked just to his left or right, or the vocalist was swaying side to side. Also, the bass was as quick and controlled as anything I've ever heard. Owing itself largely to the top notch cabinetry, there was NEVER a bloated note ad ANY point during my listening over the next week. Finally, as I generally do, I checked off axis response right away and was pleased with what I found. They are very good both horizontally and vertically.

    I was keenly interested in whether or not my Yamaha RX-V663 could effectively push the three speakers. I began playing miscellaneous music selections through them at moderate volumes. (note: playback was through a Squeezebox 3's digital output to my receiver. All songs were lossless rips) I know everybody who upgrades says this and it's become incredibly cliche, but well, I could hear things I'd never heard before. I don't just mean that the little bleeps and tings were blaring at me so I could hear little things that weren't meant to be in the forefront though. I heard harmony lines that had been mushed together before. I heard the decay rates of the reverb used by the recording engineer. I even heard a few "mistakes" that were buried enough in the mix as to not warrant fixing. Here's a fun one: I'm not really a fan of pop music, but take a listen to Christina Aguilera's You Are Beautiful. (love her or hate her, it's a tremendous vocal performance) At the end of the song there's headphone bleed audible in the vocal track. Asked about it on a recording forum, the engineer explained that it was the scratch track. She was reading the lyrics off a piece of paper when she sang that. The performance was magic, so he used it anyway. In any case, these are revealing speakers. They resolve a fantastic amount of detail. This is owed not only to the quality drivers, but to the high quality crossover parts used and the NoRez treatment that eliminates a lot of midrange smearing. I cranked them up, and the Yammy handled it admirably. It did start to compress a bit, but it didn't overheat or shut down, and this was full-range, so crossed over to a sub it would be much easier. I think $300-$500 receivers will do just fine for with these for HT duty in all but the largest rooms so long as you have a sub.

    So there they sat, mostly playing background music while I finished two 15 page economics papers. (I know, that's not all that long for a master's level course, but two in one week will still stress your time management skills) I didn't take them upstairs to the 2-channel system in the office because a) I didn't want to take the time, b) I didn't want to haul them around too much when they were going to a gtg in a few days where I'd hear plenty with which to evaluate them. On Friday night after a bunch of yard work, however, we decided to rent a movie so I could test them out with blu-ray audio before packing them up. We rented Percy Jackson and the Olympians: The Lightning Thief, partly because we were in the mood for an action/adventure type movie, and partially because I'd heard it sounds pretty good. I promised my wife I'd do a minimum of adjusting and tinkering during the move, but I did have to change a couple of things right off the bat. For one thing, I no longer needed to run the center hot to keep voices intelligible. I set the three speakers dead even and didn't have to reach for the volume once during the quietest or loudest scenes. Dialog was completely clear the whole time. Next, I was able to cross my MFW-15 over lower than with my RS450's. They are rated at 37hz on the low end, but when I cross them over below 80hz, they tend to sound a little thin. The LCR's comfortably crossed over at 60hz for HT and 40hz for music. Their bass was so much better than the sub I wanted it down as far as possible. Overall impressions? These are fantastically dynamic speakers for HT use. Everything was correctly in place across a seamless front stage, and sounds seemed to come out of the walls sometimes because of the holographic imaging. Especially interesting, because I haven't really experienced it before, was that sounds coming from nearer to the screen sounded nearer and sounds coming from further back sounded much further back, rather than just quieter. I greatly enjoyed using these for HT and am now a bit ruined for my current system. If I had any complaints at all, I would say I noticed two things. I felt there was occasionally a touch of "glare," for lack of a better term, in the upper midrange area, and while I wouldn't describe these as bright, there seemed to be a slight rise right at the 12-16k range that occasionally came off as sibilant with certain material. Particularly high-hat cymbals that largely fall below that frequency range came off a little sizzly at the very top sometimes. I wanted to hear them with better amplification before deciding on that though.

    Late Friday after the movie, I packed up the LCR's and put them in the car with the rest of the gear and saturday I drove up to Wakeman, Ohio for a Cleveland Regional Audio Club (CRAC) gathering, where I met a bunch of nice people who primarily hang out over on Audio Karma. The system I was working with there was the Onix CD-10, Onix DAC-25, and Onix XIA-160. I set up in an empty room just down the hall from the main listening area. The room was empty and untreated, with two large windows along one wall. The echo was pretty severe. When I first set up, I played the Monitor 1's for a while. While the room caused some smearing of detail, it wasn't too bad. The system actually sounded pretty good. However, when I swapped out the Monitor 1's for the LCR's, I could immediately hear some unpleasantness going on. Now, this was the first time I had heard them through something other than my cheap receiver, so I wasn't totally sure what to expect, but I did expect better at least. The quieter passages were great, but certain voices and instruments really seemed to load up the room right in the 850hz-1.5k area. It came across as mid-heavy and a little shouty. I couldn't really turn them up enough without pain to get much decent bass response too. What really surprised me was how much more this happened with the LCR's than with the Monitor 1's. Tonally, the Monitor 1's are more forward than the LCR's. They have a little less midrange energy at a perceived volume level, and as a result perhaps didn't reveal the room's resonances as readily. The Monitor 1's also seemed to have more bass energy in that room. It was about the right sized room for the Monitor 1's to stretch out and get thumping a little, but not so large that the bass got swallowed up. (such as at Craig Chase's gtg last year in his big theater room) With the LCR's it was all way more different than I expected. They needed more volume to stretch their legs. The dynamics produced by them was impressive and threatened to overwhelm the room at most volume levels. The high frequency energy was almost overwhelmed by the midrange due to the echoey room and it all just sounded bad. I was disappointed, but we decided to take the LCR's out into the main room later.

    When I moved the LCR's out into the main room everything changed. For one thing, the LCR's that looked so hulkingly big in my living room were positively dwarfed by the Tyler Acoustics PD80's. Somebody even referred to them as "the little ones." Next, the tonal balance had reverted to normal and all was well. At this point they were powered by a McIntosh front end with even more juice than the XIA-160. We played a little of everything through them, and they acquitted themselves nicely with all of it. Particularly, the Dire Straights song "Money for Nothing" was one of the DAC shoot-out songs, so I'd heard it like 6 times through the Tylers when it got played on the LCR's. I was quite pleased with how the they compared. The LCR's won't give you quite the effortless "bigness" of the 15" woofers and horns, but they sounded every bit as natural, and just about as dynamic. (and the tylers are 101db efficient) They were more revealing than the big Tylers as well. A little later, I was working on packing up some of my other gear, and a song with a thick, deep bass line came on and pressurized the whole basement. I had to go out and check, because I didn't quite believe the LCR's were doing that. Sure enough, they were slamming out there. Detecting the surprise on my face, one of the other attendees looked up and said "Yep, they've got some bass!" When talking about it later, another attendee referred to them as "beastly." Imaging was really great here too. Instruments didn't gravitate to the speakers at all. I was easy to pinpoint voices and instruments that were just left of center, just inside the right speaker, just beyond the left speaker, etc. Much better than the big horns in this regard.

    When I got them home I put them back up in my office with the XIA-160 and CD-10 and listened to 2-channel a little more. While much better than the empty room at the gtg, my office/listening room is in need of treatments as well. (it's on the list, but I'm broke for a bit) However, I still enjoyed the LCR's greatly here. I listened to some McCoy Tyner Quartet New York Reunion and the saxaphone was absolutely amazing. As if it was right there in the room with me. At one point I began to feel that "glare" was setting in a little, but then I realized how loud I was playing it when I went downstairs to get a glass of lemonade. (I could have heard it outside) These are actually easy speakers to play too loud. I went through a bunch of other things and found myself wanting to do "homework" a bit later into the evening than I otherwise would have, because I didn't want to leave the room with the best speakers in the house. Wink The sizzle I mentioned before was nonexistent as I listened to mostly quality recordings and didn't return until I tried a little Chevelle. (I think their recordings are sibilant on almost every system) Porcupine Tree's The Incident sounded great though, as did AC/DC Live.

    My overall impressions were slightly changed through my listening time. First, I don't think the top end is too hot. I heard such a wide variety of materials in a large enough room to hear more direct sound than reflection that I have a better picture than before, and I've determined that they are just very revealing. We all know that some music is better recorded than others, and the high-hat and other cymbals is one area where compression artifacts can be particularly evident. These aren't especially forgiving speakers to bad recordings. Second, they have a lot more bass than I thought. You just have to get them cranking a bit before the woofers can totally stretch their legs. Frankly, these are a touch large for either of my listening spaces, and sometimes the dynamics overwhelm the space a bit and I can't turn them up enough to realize their potential. On the other hand, when I keep them low enough to hear the direct sound more than the room I find them a touch light on the midbass. I think they actually do better with low bass than with kick drums. With jazz and classical, the bass is really excellent, but with rock music sometimes it feels a little light. This is generally rectified by turning the big silver knob on the amp clockwise, but again - small, untreated room. I'm chalking that up largely to the resonance free cabinets. I think we're all used to a little wooliness in our bass. Recordings with a big bottom provided appropriate thump to the chest.

    I would say that I'd sum them up by saying they are transparent, dynamic, and open, with some of the best imaging I've heard. Negatives are two: One is the aforementioned glare right around the crossover point that would occasionally irritate me. I'm not sure if it's a little roughness in the response right there, a symptom of having a slight rise in the mids, or just the rooms I listened in. Without seeing measurements I can't be 100% sure. It may even just be certain recordings. I'm listening to Muse Black Holes and Revelations pretty dang loud right now and everything sounds perfect. Frankly, I'm still not sure it's not just a symptom of me cranking it up so loud. I keep trying to decide, and I keep turning it up until it hurts my ears. :dizzy: Maybe that's actually a good sign... In any case, it's something I noticed and it wouldn't be fair for me not to report it. Second is that untreated rooms seem to really affect these more than some other speakers I've demoed. I'm not really sure why. Maybe it's the strong off-axis response. Either way, it's inspired me to pursue some treatments a little sooner than later.

    Of course I'm nitpicking here. I'm a little anal retentive about detail that way. Also, I want to give a full synopsis of what these sound like, not just a highlights list. I don't even know how much they will cost yet, so I'm not talking value here. Just pure performance. The bottom line is that I will be very sad to see these leave, and I will consider it my happy duty to have a set at home when they hit the market.

    Other notes:
    --My CRT revealed pretty quickly that the center channel speaker isn't shielded. I'd be curious to know how many people would care about that so we can see if it needs to be addressed.
    --They are very deep. The L/R version of the speakers is 16" deep and need to be a certain distance from the wall. (although I found few ill-effects from having them only about 8" from the wall for a bit) The "C" speaker is only 12" deep, which makes it more flexible, but will have little less low bass extension. I'm recommending to Hugh that we allow people to mix and match as much as possible. Some will want the big ones for fronts and the small ones for center and surrounds. Some will need the shallower model all around. Some may even want all deep models if they've go the space. That sort of thing will sort itself out though. The bottom line though is that if you've got room for open baffle you've got room for a 16" deep cabinet, so I think there will be quite a few people who can make it work just fine.


    UPDATE: As if my review weren't long enough, there's even more to the story. Regarding the slight glare I was complaining about, I happened upon a thread over in Audio Circle where Danny Richie was dissecting a Behringer studio monitor. The description he gave of the problem caused by the woofer cutouts not being rounded over on the backside (stored energy in the 750hz-1khz range due to standing waves) matched what I was hearing perfectly. I checked with him to make sure it would be a good idea to make that modification in this specific situation, and once I had gotten the thumbs up from Hugh I went to town with a Dremel. While the work isn't as elegant as what the factory could have done pre-assembly, I got the 90 degree angle ground down at least. Once I got everything put back together there was a noticeable improvement. I think a nice smooth 1/2" radius done at the factory will be better still. The last few days I had the LCR's they were better than ever. I can't really think of any complaints at all now.


    Last edited by woofersus on August 17th 2010, 5:01 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    mobileusa

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  mobileusa on July 29th 2010, 6:07 pm

    Wonderful review Tim...but I'm not surprised coming from you!
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    dwayland

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  dwayland on August 11th 2010, 7:17 pm

    Who's next in line??? ME! Should be making their arrival within the next several days!
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    mobileusa

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  mobileusa on August 12th 2010, 5:38 pm

    I'm jealous ... Wink
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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  Admin on August 12th 2010, 5:40 pm

    dwayland wrote:Who's next in line??? ME! Should be making their arrival within the next several days!

    someone's going to have a nice birthday... jocolor
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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  dwayland on August 12th 2010, 8:35 pm

    You got that right! I think I have to give these gifts back though. :-( I'll enjoy them none the less though!

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  Hugh on August 14th 2010, 10:30 am

    Let us know how it sounds to you Derek.
    dwayland wrote:You got that right! I think I have to give these gifts back though. :-( I'll enjoy them none the less though!
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    woofersus

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  woofersus on August 17th 2010, 5:02 pm

    Hey guys, just as an FYI ,I appended my review with the following:

    UPDATE: As if my review weren't long enough, there's even more to the story. Regarding the slight glare I was complaining about, I happened upon a thread over in Audio Circle where Danny Richie was dissecting a Behringer studio monitor. The description he gave of the problem caused by the woofer cutouts not being rounded over on the backside (stored energy in the 750hz-1khz range due to standing waves) matched what I was hearing perfectly. I checked with him to make sure it would be a good idea to make that modification in this specific situation, and once I had gotten the thumbs up from Hugh I went to town with a Dremel. While the work isn't as elegant as what the factory could have done pre-assembly, I got the 90 degree angle ground down at least. Once I got everything put back together there was a noticeable improvement. I think a nice smooth 1/2" radius done at the factory will be better still. The last few days I had the LCR's they were better than ever. I can't really think of any complaints at all now.
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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  Admin on August 18th 2010, 7:23 pm

    not allowed.. Wink
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    woofersus

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  woofersus on August 18th 2010, 8:55 pm

    Admin wrote:not allowed.. Wink

    Then I'm gonna have to mail Derek an awful lot of sawdust and glue... Laughing
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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  Admin on August 19th 2010, 4:09 pm

    affraid
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    Blue Shift Audio's review of Angel City Audio's LCR Speakers

    Post  dwayland on August 21st 2010, 8:44 pm


    Here is the setup during music listening sessions with the L/R speakers positioned 6' from inside edge to inside edge.
    During movies, the L/R speakers are move outward (+-)1.5' to allow for the 109" pull down screen which when pulled down, comes to roughly 1" above the center speaker.

    Greetings all,

    Just a quick heads up: This will likely be less of a technical review and more of an emotional review as I tend to focus more on what the music does to me, emotionally and physically. That being said, I won’t be going into detail as to how I moved this speaker or that 1” to the left or right for this reason or that. Just know that I have spent a good deal of time on placement and have placed the speakers where I think they should be and where I think they sound the best. Also, being an average Joe, more or less, I lack the full “Stereophile” vocabulary to describe music, so please forgive me. I'm more of an introvert anyways. I will try to keep away from just giving in and simply saying something sounds great, good or bad and do my best to describe, in my own layman’s terms, what I am hearing/feeling. I hope that’s ok. I just wish you were here to hear them for yourself!

    My room is 15’Wx25’Lx9’H. The length of the room is divided by a 4’ high short wall that divides the living room(Audio/HT Room) from the kitchen. The front soundstage is along one of the 15’ walls. I consider this to be a fairly large room and speaker size/power always comes into play when making this room work. I can’t tell you how many subs I have been through that work well at pressurizing the room while at the same time providing a nice mid bass kick.

    Please see my total list of components found near the bottom of the page if you want a snapshot of my entire system.

    Initial Experience with the LCR’s:
    I have spent the last week, getting to know the L/R speakers of the LCR trio as best I could with a whole lot of “life” going on, but I did have some nice 1 on 1 time with them in the following setup.. All last week I had them placed along one of the 25’ outer walls, roughly centered within the AV room, on Onix stands, with the tweeter roughly an inch above my ear at listening position. The long wall placement was not ideal by any means; no acoustic paneling at this position and totally open to the left and right, so no corner for any lower bass assistance. (I was, just today, finally able to move them into a more desirable location.) While located in the previous position, they were connected to the Onix A-65 Inigrated Amp, an Onix CD-15 and Onix DAC-25. I would have thought that the speaker location would have eliminated any chance of bass response, but I was wrong! I don’t understand just how, but I had no need for additional sub assistance. Sure I had one, but I ended up turning it all the way down. FWIW, most of the music being played while located in this position was Flamenco Guitar, jazz and the like; easier listening stuff which tends to have more defined and clearly audible bass. Bottom line, I am truly impressed at how well they sounded in this less than ideal location. I won’t go on any more in regards to my thoughts on the speakers and their performance at this location as I never intended on having them there in the first place. There were there, waiting in the wings until I finally had the time to move them to the front 15’w wall, which is where they currently reside.

    Ok, moving forward. This morning I performed the mod to the center speaker that Tim completed on the L/R speakers previously. I provided some pictures of said mod below, just for fun.

    Here is the link to some pictures of the mod and of the speakers in their temporary home.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/dwayland/sets/72157624774256576/show/
    (Click on "Show Info" in the upper right hand corner of the slide show to display picture information.)

    On to the listening session:
    After a couple hours of getting my ears warmed up, I decided on the following, in this order:

    AIX Records, Blu-Ray(John Gorka – Mercy Of The Wheels)
    John’s voice sounded very rich and full and most of all, real. Vocals and guitar where very nicely balanced(read nice imaging) across the front stage. I was really quite impressed by the guitar here, even the mandolin which made a few nice appearances to the right of the stage. The piano came across just as the artist playing was intending; very intentional, delicate and warm. I play bass, so I truly appreciated the fretless bass here as well. Bottom line, this was a live and very pure performance and the speakers passed this intent along perfectly with every instrument clearly audible and clean. I really turned this tune up. It’s such an emotional performance that the louder I listened to more involved I became. This is NOT to say that you need to turn up these speakers to hear detail. No, not at all. Even at more, wife friendly volumes that emotion and clarity still shone through.

    Dream Theater-Score “Live” DVD (The Spirit Carries On)
    Ok, this is going to sound really odd to some of you, but this IS the song that will be played at my funeral. Really! That should tell you just how much I love this song and DT’s live performance on Score is simply amazing. This is one my neighbors are really hating me for, especially today. ;-) The guitar sounds soooo crystal clear, no matter the volume. This is by far the best I have ever heard this song sound. Really! They did such a good job mastering this recording and it shows. John Petrucci’s solos sound like they are coming right out of his amps into my ears. Ok, I’m really starting to sound a bit over the top here… I just put the DVD in again right now and it’s just amazing. I have never been able to play it so loud and have it sound so clear before. Nice amount of mid bass kick too. (Hugh, do you really need these back?) ;-)

    Rush-Snakes and Arrows “Live” Blu-Ray (Mission)
    For the last 30 years I have been in love with Geddy Lee’s bass sound.(Lucky me, I got hooked on Rush when I was nine!) I would love to be able to replicate his signature sound on my own bass, but that’s just not going to happen unless I drop some additional coin, so I just need to be happy continuing to listen to his. Ok, I just listened to Mission, top the list of my favorite Rush songs. While this is a new recording, Geddy’s bass really came thru on these speakers. I heard more definition than I have heard before. I could hear every note, clearly and not a single note sounded boomy. I also took notice that Neil’s cymbals were more noticeable and more clear that I remembered as well. Alex’s guitar also was well defined and clear. I’m starting to see a trend here with my observations… I feel like I am repeating myself… Again, I found the overall sound to be very clear and live, just as intended.

    Megadeth-That One Night “Live” DVD (Kick the Chair) & (Coming Home)
    My neighbors really, really hate me now! Dave’s gritty, growling voice comes through with a vengeance and maintains its definition even with all of the other guitar action surrounding it. While I did crank this one up at first , I decided to bring it back down a bit. I think this recording was not mastered as well as Dream Theaters and therefore the harshness was starting to come through at upper levels. I really don’t think it was the fault of the speakers. I think they just revealed the flaws in the recording. I still enjoyed it, just didn’t crank it up as much as Megadeth deserves to be cranked. Solos were well defined as were the vocals, but the bass guitar was getting lost in the bass drum kicks. I think this is one of those instances where the speakers are too good for the recording and reveal the stuff you normally don’t hear. “Coming Home” is a bit of a change… It’s just Dave singing with an acoustic guitar accompanist. Dave’s voice (if you like it) and appreciate it like I do, sounds, well, like Dave, only clearer and more defined than I have heard before. I really turned this one up. The vocals (mainly coming out of the center) showed no sign of strain or harshness. Natural, only much louder. ;-) The acoustic guitar sounded pretty nice as well again showing no strain at higher volumes. I listened to “Coming Home” again while writing this, this time, much quieter and I have to say, you don’t have to push these speakers to get a nice full sound.

    David Gilmour-Live in Gdansk “DVD” 5.1-Audio Only of On An Island (Smile)
    David’s voice comes across as very intimate, great vocal imaging across the front as well. Steel guitar plays a major role is this song and never sounds harsh. Every pluck and slide is clearly heard and comes across in a very pleasant way. You can even hear David’s wife as she sneaks in a few bits of the chorus too. This recording truly wraps the listener in sound, like a cozy blanket. Such an uplifting and happy song. The LCR’s truly make this song come alive for me.

    Amy Macdonald-A Curious Thing “CD” (Give It All Up)
    Ok, I’ll admit it… Amy is my secret crush. What an amazing talent and what an great and original voice. “Give It All Up” has a great driving rhythm to which the LCR’s keep up with ease. Amy’s acoustic strumming is discernable throughout the song even though there is a lot going on. The electric guitar compliments the synths very nicely as well. Every instrument has a place and can be picked out easily. Amy’s vocals are a bit more forward and spread out wide, not focused in the center, as was the intent. I could listen to this one over and over and over… You get the idea.

    Kristina Train-Spilt Milk “CD” (No Man’s Land)
    Here’s a woman with a fantastic career ahead of her. She just oozes soul with gobs of talent. If you ever get the chance to see her, I urge you too! Anyways, this is a CD I come back to time and time again, a. it’s just that good and b. the recording it top notch. Kristina’s vocals are so rich and have so much character that she really needs to be enjoyed through some nice speakers. These do her justice in spades. From her breathy soulful passages to her full out belting, they never seemed to let her down. The imaging is dead on and her vocals fill the room with get out of my way force. I really turned this one up. I keep going on about her vocals, but the rest of the band really kicks in as well. Drums are clean and the brass(while in the background) sounds great too. If I were a true reviewer, I would say that the microphones were placed roughly 20’ in front of the band to keep them slightly subdued and placing extra emphases on Kristina’s vocals. Bottom line, she sounds better than I have heard her on any other gear.

    Jesse Cook-Frontiers “CD” (Vamos)
    Flamenco at its finest. Fancy guitar work and tons and tons of percussion make this one a real treat for the ears. The imaging is just amazing, between the guitar, brass blasting in the background, percussion and clapping. So much going on and such a joy to listen to. Following the sounds from left to right then back to center. This CD gets lots of lots of air time at the house as it is wife friendly, gets her hips moving too. ;-) As I was saying, it gets a lot of air time, so I know exactly how this usually sounds. This time it’s a bit more, well, alive I guess. More open, airy and crisp. Sorry, I’m trying here folks. Jesse’s hard plucking is rendered quite well. Another fantastic recording that sounds fantastic through these bad boys.

    Iced Earth-The Crucible Of Man “CD” (I Walk Alone)
    A tour de force of unadulterated metal with smart lyrics. Matthew Barlow’s mega vocals never sounded so good and Jon Schaffer’s guitar never sounds strained, again even at higher volumes. The double bass pedal thumps with clear definition and intent, never muddy. Another great recording that these speakers treat very well.

    Jean Michel Jarre-Oxygene, Live and In Your Living Room “DVD” 5.1 (Oxygene Pt. II)
    Yes another discover when I was 8-9 years old. Been a big fan ever since. If you have never heard of JMJ, then I suggest you have a listen. Mostly all synth and lots of sampling, but it does not sound like you might think. This is the music I have always read to. The imagery that he creates with all of the various sound effects is amazing and can really compliment sci-fi and fantasy novels. Ok, so how does it sound? The clarity and detail is superb. All of the sounds are rendered in great detail. The high end really gets a workout with all of the sound FX. I have nothing to complain about. The constant “thumps” i.e., bass line has an audible boing (as if a string is being plucked) that I had never noticed before. The constant rise and fall of tones shows no signs of strain either.

    AVATAR-“Blu-Ray”
    Dialog was clear and natural. I was particularly impressed by the sound that the Osprey type vehicles made. It truly sounded like a helicopter was landing on my house in several scenes. Sound effects where especially real sounding during quiet scenes as well. Explosions were real sounding and never broke apart. The LCR’s deliver on the home theater front in spades. I really am looking forward to having these as permanent family members in my home.


    Conclusion:
    So if you found a recurring theme in the above and decided to skip to the end for my final statement, that’s cool, I don’t blame you one bit. I know I sounded like a broken record throughout my review. Bottom line, these are most certainly the best all around speaker I have ever had the pleasure of listening to in my home. On the 2 channel front, they did everything I could have asked for and even delivered in areas I did not think could get much better. Imaging is superb as well as clarity and bass response. On the home theater front, they also delivered. Handling everything I tossed their way. Delicate enough for subtle sound effects, but ready for missile attacks as well. I am ready for these bad boys to be permanent members of the Wayland family and that’s 100% me talking as a consumer. I wish I could have had some folks over for a listen, so you didn’t have to hear all of this from a future dealer of said product. I just want you all to know, I wrote this review with complete honesty and hope that once I have a trio of these in my house that you can come listen for yourself.

    After 12 hours of non-stop listening, I think I am done… For now. Thanks so much for reading.

    Derek Wayland


    Components:

    Emotiva UMC-1 (AV Processor)
    Emotiva XPA-5 (5-ch power amp.)
    Onix A-65 (Integrated Amp)
    Onix DAC-25 (Up sampling Digital to Audio Converter)
    Oppo BDP-83 (BD Player)
    Panamax m1500 (UPA/Pure Sine wave voltage regulator)

    Speakers:
    Angel City Audio LCR’s (Left Center Right)
    SVS SSS-02 dipoles (Surrounds)
    SVS 16-46PCi (Sub)

    Interconnects:
    Onix Blue OFC RCA cables (All components)
    Onix SP-200 OFC Speaker Cable (For use with Onix A-65)
    Dayton Audio SCP-15 Speaker cable for front ACA LCR's

    Furniture:
    Onix Satin Black speaker stands
    VTI Manufacturing (13" Center Speaker Stand)
    Studio Tech PS-6 (Audio Tower)

    Acoustical:
    ATS Acoustics panels (Behind L/R speaker & side wall of sub)
    Auralex Acoustics - Subdude (For SVS 16-46PCi)

    Projection:
    Draper Luma 2 High Contrast Gray (Manual Pull down screen)
    Infocus X1 (DLP Projector)
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    Admin
    Admin

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    Re: LCR Beta Test

    Post  Admin on August 22nd 2010, 8:16 pm

    Great review Derek!

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