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    Someone clue me in on the open baffle sound....

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    mobileusa

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    Someone clue me in on the open baffle sound....

    Post  mobileusa on January 30th 2009, 11:23 pm

    why build a box if the open baffle sounds so great?...
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    CloudStrife

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    Re: Someone clue me in on the open baffle sound....

    Post  CloudStrife on January 31st 2009, 9:31 pm

    A box allows better bass. ported>sealed>OB
    Also, some drivers need the support of the air cushion inside the box. Like in my build, the rocket woofers can damage themselves if they go too low in OB.
    Whether OB is better is up to you.
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    mobileusa

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    Re: Someone clue me in on the open baffle sound....

    Post  mobileusa on January 31st 2009, 10:39 pm

    thanks for the reply. you project is looking great BTW, how many hours do you have on it so far?...
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    CloudStrife

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    Re: Someone clue me in on the open baffle sound....

    Post  CloudStrife on February 1st 2009, 12:51 am

    Not sure. 70-100 maybe, but it's spread out over a 6 month period. The second speaker should come along a lot quicker since I know what I'm doing better.

    Larry D

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    Re: Someone clue me in on the open baffle sound....

    Post  Larry D on February 3rd 2009, 6:17 am

    To really appreciate a good Open Baffle speaker, or a really good full range driver, or I could include Maggies here, too, you really have to hear them. All the talk in the world can't explain how different the sound is. It is a wonderful sound. Let's say you have some really good expensive audiophile quality spakers... nothing wrong with them, everything right with them... they're really good and you're happy with them. Now let's say that you've never been to a live concert... a real live orchestra in a concert hall. But fortune smiles on you and you win the lottery and can afford to go to a concert and you go and sit there and listen to live music for the first time... no matter how good your audiophile expensive speakers are at home, or how good your room is, or how great your amp is and so on... it sounds different. Unfortunately, (it seems to me) that x out of 10 people who get online and talk about the live concert are going to complain about something... traffic, parking, the crowd, the room, the ticket, the seat, the view, somebody coughing, prices at intermission, the program, the music, the conductor, the orchestra... on and on and on... that's just human nature. It's going to be impossible to find out for yourself what a difference a live concert sounds than your really good speakers -- not knocking your speakers, they're great... but they're different. You may find you don't like going to live concerts. You may decide that you don't like Open Baffle or Full Range speakers. But you can really know or appreciate the difference unles you hear the difference for yourself.

    SilverGSX

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    X-Statiks!

    Post  SilverGSX on February 3rd 2009, 11:40 am

    If you're worried about spending the money on them and then not liking them if nobody near you can audition, invest in a pair of B-stock X-Statiks they have over on the av123 site. You can't go wrong at the price and guaranteed you could get rid of them as easily as you bought them, but I doubt you'd want to. These speakers sound wonderful and, in my experience, can extend way beyond their rated 65hz flat bass response according to the site.
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    mobileusa

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    Re: Someone clue me in on the open baffle sound....

    Post  mobileusa on February 3rd 2009, 7:23 pm

    SilverGSX wrote:If you're worried about spending the money on them and then not liking them if nobody near you can audition, invest in a pair of B-stock X-Statiks they have over on the av123 site. You can't go wrong at the price and guaranteed you could get rid of them as easily as you bought them, but I doubt you'd want to. These speakers sound wonderful and, in my experience, can extend way beyond their rated 65hz flat bass response according to the site.

    What have you compared these to?.....

    SilverGSX

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    Re: Someone clue me in on the open baffle sound....

    Post  SilverGSX on February 3rd 2009, 10:05 pm

    I haven't done a side by side comparison between these and other speakers, but lately I have auditioned LS6's and Dynaudio Confidence C1's. The X-Statik provides a different sound than an enclosed speaker, but for being just two 6.5" drivers in a sealed enclosure for bass these speakers run pretty low. Listening to anything with a voice is an absolute pleasure with these speakers as it sounds very natural and open. I have yet to find a genre of music that doesn't sound good on these speakers.

    That Burmester art for the ear CD you sent me has a wide variety of music, and it all sounds good. Thanks again btw.
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    mobileusa

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    Re: Someone clue me in on the open baffle sound....

    Post  mobileusa on February 3rd 2009, 10:34 pm

    you are very welcome. I forgot it was you that received it...
    I am guessing the open baffle is in the same league of most full range drivers if the cabinets are not conducive to lower frequencies...we built some ziggies and they sound great for a small room with jazz and horns but anything with a bottom end, forget it...
    I believe I heard the x-statics at the NAGTG last year but I don't remember the sound. The rooms weren't exactly for critical listening....

    SilverGSX

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    Re: Someone clue me in on the open baffle sound....

    Post  SilverGSX on February 4th 2009, 7:36 am

    Yeah I'm willing to bet the bass response below 65 is completely room dependent. Fortunately I get a slightly amplified but pretty flat response down to 20hz Very Happy
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    mobileusa

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    Re: Someone clue me in on the open baffle sound....

    Post  mobileusa on February 5th 2009, 6:40 pm

    what are you driving the x-statics with?...

    SilverGSX

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    Re: Someone clue me in on the open baffle sound....

    Post  SilverGSX on February 6th 2009, 11:41 am

    I'd love to be driving them all the time with a vintage Scott receiver I've got, but it's been acting up lately so I've got them hooked up to a Sherwood receiver for now, hoping to move onto something in the next few months. I'm going to audition the Naim Nait5i and also try Emotiva separates.
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    woofersus

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    Re: Someone clue me in on the open baffle sound....

    Post  woofersus on February 9th 2009, 10:56 am

    My only experience with OB was hearing a pair of x-statics at a gtg. I have to say, my feelings are mixed. Maybe I should have spent more time with them and put them through their paces, but there were too many things to hear in one day. I heard the Master & Commander demo that MLS played loud enough to hear a block away, and expansive, surrounding nature was very cool. (the effect was completed by the x-omni's on surround duty) They didn't play that low. Mark indicated that you really can't cross them over lower than 80hz. The ufw-10's filled that in well enough though. It was a neat sounding demo, and enough to make me think that maybe open baffle could be really cool, but there were problems too. They didn't have the dynamics and punch that I love so much about my rockets. No that they sounded compressed, but the diffusive sound traded off on "kick" a little. Also, I found that the x-voce center, while contributing to that "wall of sound" front stage, didn't anchor the dialog to the screen very well at all, and tended to make the voices sound wider than the screen. That effect was less bothersome when viewing a live concert performance, as it better reproduced the diffusing and reverberation of a large, live concert venue, but it wasn't necessarily the most accurate representation of what was recorded. The same effect bothered me in 2 channel music listening. Certain types of music were neat sounding because of the effect - like classical - but in general I found the separation of voices was lacking and the sound stage was a tad vague. Busy music like hard rock sounded smeared accross the front and when I listen to vocal music I want to be able to close my eyes and pinpoint where on the the stage the performer is but with the x-statics I felt like it was coming from the whole wall in front of me.

    Ultimate findings: HT cool but not punchy enough, (although the x-omnis were fantastic) Music not my cup of tea.

    Now, I realize that the av123 x-statics aren't the end-all be-all of OB speakers, so maybe some more expensive speakers do a much better job. The room may have also been a problem, but what I perceived was what I would think are general characteristics of OB designs. I'd like to hear something a little higher end to compare, like maybe some of Danny Richie's OB-7's or something.

    SilverGSX

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    Re: Someone clue me in on the open baffle sound....

    Post  SilverGSX on February 9th 2009, 11:39 am

    I'm sure room and placement has a big effect on how these speakers sound. Tested in room my x-statiks are slightly amplified but extend down to 20Hz without dipping below what it is at 1kHz

    What sized room did you listen to them in?
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    woofersus

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    Re: Someone clue me in on the open baffle sound....

    Post  woofersus on February 12th 2009, 9:35 am

    The room I was in was fairly large - around 12-15 ft front to back and maybe 17-18 ft accross, with the speakers being around 6-7 ft apart. It was carpeted and the walls were mostly covered, but one end was open to a doorway along the front wall and a stairway going down along the far right. It was pretty dead. The x-omnis were fantastic as surrounds in there.

    I'm very surprised you're measuring meaningful output down to 20hz. There must be some unholy level of room gain because that's way outside of spec. MLS himself set up the system we were listening too and he said they really couldn't dig below 80hz and should be crossed over there.

    SilverGSX

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    Re: Someone clue me in on the open baffle sound....

    Post  SilverGSX on February 13th 2009, 3:07 pm

    This is just the left channel output to give you an idea of the room gain I'm getting.



    That dip in the midbass evens out with all channels and sub.
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    mobileusa

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    Re: Someone clue me in on the open baffle sound....

    Post  mobileusa on February 13th 2009, 3:40 pm

    what mic do you use?...

    SilverGSX

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    Re: Someone clue me in on the open baffle sound....

    Post  SilverGSX on April 10th 2009, 9:19 am

    Sorry this reply is so late. It was not my microphone, so I can let you know when I ask him. I had the chance to get these speakers into a local store and audition some McIntosh gear with them. The 2300 tube preamp and 402 solid state amp made for a wonderful combination. I compared them with some gallo 3.1 reference speakers and found them to be a much larger sound stage. Since the open baffle system allowed for a certain open-ness of these speakers the high ceilings gave them a chance to really shine. It seemed like a wall of sound, as if you were there live at the performance, but it was easily distinguishable exactly where each musician was. The gallo's seemed to be a more relaxed, farther set back sound stage.

    If you ever have the chance to audition mcintosh gear, do it. It's fantastic.

    cujobob

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    Re: Someone clue me in on the open baffle sound....

    Post  cujobob on March 8th 2010, 7:28 am

    Basically, we're forced to load drivers with boxes because they aren't perfect (and neither are rooms). I have a pair of OB7s, some Hawthorne OBs and have heard a few others...IMO, Danny does a very good job with his OB speakers.

    By being OB, the soundstage size improves, but it's not quite as pinpoint most people say. I'm not sure if this is fixed in rooms with better treatment or more space.

    Myself, I like sealed designs best.

    I have a pair of X-Statiks on the way and a pair of OB7s also...if I have time, maybe I'll do a quick comparo. My OB7s have an insanely tweaked out crossover, so it won't be fair, really...

    Larry D

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    Re: Someone clue me in on the open baffle sound....

    Post  Larry D on April 7th 2010, 8:09 am

    David at Planet10-Hifi sells "enabled" full range drivers for Open Baffles, quarter wave, folded horns, etc.

    The important thing here is that he is very knowledgeable on the subject. He is a moderator on another audio forum. He is very helpful if you have a question. For example, I've been considering buy a certain open baffle driver. I don't want to mention it because on that manufacturer's forum there are a lot of very happy, loyal, dedicated customers who really love their particular OB drivers and speakers. I emailed plantet10 HiFi about another subject altogether, however, I mentioned that I was considering buying one of two different drivers to make my own DIY Open Baffle speakers. He said that he had one of the drivers I was considering spending $400 for could be "blown away" by another brand's $200 drivers. However, the other brand I was considering he said he had read a lot of good comments about them, but he personally hadn't listened to them. Here's the link -- http://www.planet10-hifi.com/

    I am currently making -- well, take that back -- I have bought the drivers and I finally got some great help and advice from a guy at Parts Express on how to wire them correctly, a pair of the famous "Sweet Sixteen's" that appeared in a (I believe it was 1961) issue of Popular Electronics. I was builing one from old table radio and car speakers in 1962 which I started in 1961 as a sophomore in high school electronics class. I was a paperboy and mowed yards, bagged groceries. Unfortunately, my Grandma died at 84 and I was left alone for a year before I had to go live with somebody or be put in a home.

    There have been reviews of the "Sweet Sixteen". It wasn't that great of a speaker from an audiophile point of view. In fact, later on in 1961 in another issure of Popular Electronics the author wrote a follow up article about adding a tweeter. Nevertheless, thousands of people bought all the drivers used in the article from the company who made them. Boys, like me, were left scrounging junk yards for old auto speakers. I bought 32 little computer desktop speakers from Parts Express on a "buyout" sale. They have a tweeter built in already. I'll have to cut rectangular holes in a 4x9 piece of plywood... but it will be an Open Baffle speaker. I have no idea what it will sound like... probably terrible. But that's the great thing about DIY speaker building. You can really mess up and give it to some grandkid or neighborhood kid and they think you're a genius.

    Hugh

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    Re: Someone clue me in on the open baffle sound....

    Post  Hugh on April 7th 2010, 10:31 am

    I hope to find out for myself real soon. Wink Smile
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    mobileusa

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    Re: Someone clue me in on the open baffle sound....

    Post  mobileusa on April 7th 2010, 10:41 am

    Hugh wrote:I hope to find out for myself real soon. Wink Smile

    and what does that mean???

    Hugh

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    Re: Someone clue me in on the open baffle sound....

    Post  Hugh on April 7th 2010, 10:58 am

    It measn IF I tell YOU...I'll have to xxx YOU. Very Happy

    Larry D

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    Re: Someone clue me in on the open baffle sound....

    Post  Larry D on April 11th 2010, 3:54 am

    The best "clue" would simply go listen to some and then you can make up your own mind. There is no amount of explanation that can "clue you in". You have to hear it for yourself with a good set up and with good music. Many audtiophiles love the sound and prefer the sound, just as many audiophiles prefer tube amps, or records... oops, vinyl... or headphones... or enjoying a chef prepared meal at a gourmet restaurant... or an expensive, great bottle of wine... or driving a great road car... from Rolls Royce to Porsche or Ferrari... or reading a "classic"... or spending a lifetime studying the Torah. You can explain things but people remain "clueless" unless they make the efford to experience something themselves. The more "clueless" a person is about something really fine, I've found the more critical and opinionated they are. My Grandmother, may she rest in peace, raised me and she was a simple pioneer woman (she was 70 when I was born and I'm approaching 70 now... my wife is 78). She wanted me (and all of her children to better ourselves). She didn't try to force anthing on us, except Education in general and a lifelong study of the Bible specifically). She said there is a reason why people who really know something because they've studdied it exhaustively, experienced it and learned about it (many levels deepr than the average person), there is a reason they prefer what they do. There is a reason why people love great music or great cars... or great food or great wine... or great books, or art... or flyfishing! The reason is, simply put is.... they "have a clue". They started with a clue... and then went on from there. You already have a "clue"... a lot of people love Open Baffle speakers.

    Hugh

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    Re: Someone clue me in on the open baffle sound....

    Post  Hugh on April 11th 2010, 7:17 am

    Words of the wise. Smile

    Thanks Larry.
    Larry D wrote:The best "clue" would simply go listen to some and then you can make up your own mind. There is no amount of explanation that can "clue you in". You have to hear it for yourself with a good set up and with good music. Many audtiophiles love the sound and prefer the sound, just as many audiophiles prefer tube amps, or records... oops, vinyl... or headphones... or enjoying a chef prepared meal at a gourmet restaurant... or an expensive, great bottle of wine... or driving a great road car... from Rolls Royce to Porsche or Ferrari... or reading a "classic"... or spending a lifetime studying the Torah. You can explain things but people remain "clueless" unless they make the efford to experience something themselves. The more "clueless" a person is about something really fine, I've found the more critical and opinionated they are. My Grandmother, may she rest in peace, raised me and she was a simple pioneer woman (she was 70 when I was born and I'm approaching 70 now... my wife is 78). She wanted me (and all of her children to better ourselves). She didn't try to force anthing on us, except Education in general and a lifelong study of the Bible specifically). She said there is a reason why people who really know something because they've studdied it exhaustively, experienced it and learned about it (many levels deepr than the average person), there is a reason they prefer what they do. There is a reason why people love great music or great cars... or great food or great wine... or great books, or art... or flyfishing! The reason is, simply put is.... they "have a clue". They started with a clue... and then went on from there. You already have a "clue"... a lot of people love Open Baffle speakers.

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